Healthcare in the Digital Age: Insights from Amy Zolotow

Humanizing Healthcare: Trust, Technology, and AI Innovation with Amy Zolotow

In this episode of The Human Code, host Don Finley is joined by Amy Zolotow, a seasoned healthcare operations leader, to explore the transformative role of AI in healthcare. Amy shares her personal journey inspired by her father’s battle with cancer and her mission to address critical issues in healthcare through technology. They discuss challenges like administrative burdens, provider burnout, continuity of care, and patient access while highlighting the potential of AI to alleviate these problems. Emphasis is placed on the importance of education, transparency, and collaboration to build trust in AI. Real-time technology solutions, interdisciplinary collaboration, and personalized care are also explored. With insights into AI adoption and its societal impact, this episode provides valuable perspectives on leveraging AI for improved patient outcomes and healthcare efficiency.

00:00 Introduction to The Human Code Podcast 

00:49 Meet Amy Zolotow: A Leader in Healthcare Innovation 

01:45 Amy's Personal Journey and Motivation 

03:57 Current Challenges in Healthcare 

07:20 Personal Anecdotes and Systemic Issues 

09:51 Technological Solutions and Future Vision 

14:08 Building Trust in Health AI 17:14 The Role of Trust in AI Adoption 

18:06 Neurochemicals and Trust 

19:05 Driving AI Adoption Through Education 

19:48 AI in the Workplace: A Case Study 

24:49 The Importance of Storytelling in Technology 

26:12 The California Nursing Strike and AI 

28:07 Advice for Navigating AI in Healthcare 

30:19 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Sponsored by FINdustries
Hosted by Don Finley

Transcript

Don Finley: 0:00

Welcome to The Human Code, the podcast where technology meets humanity, and the future is shaped by the leaders and innovators of today. I'm your host, Don Finley, inviting you on a journey through the fascinating world of tech, leadership, and personal growth. Here, we delve into the stories of visionary minds, Who are not only driving technological advancement, but also embodying the personal journeys and insights that inspire us all. Each episode, we explore the intersections where human ingenuity meets the cutting edge of technology, unpacking the experiences, challenges, and triumphs that define our era. So, whether you are a tech enthusiast, an inspiring entrepreneur, or simply curious about the human narratives behind the digital revolution, you're in the right place. Welcome to The Human Code. In this episode, we're honored to have Amy's all the town, a seasoned healthcare operations leader, passionate about creating lasting change through human centered approaches with her extensive experience in healthcare and a drive to bring responsible AI solutions to the field. Amy offers invaluable insights into the future of healthcare. Today, Amy and I will share her mission to humanize AI and make it a trusted ally in the health care delivery and access. How AI can help alleviate the burnout and administrative burden in healthcare, improving the experience for both patients and providers, the importance of trust and AI. And how we can build that trust through education, transparency and collaboration across the healthcare ecosystem. Join us for this inspiring and insightful conversation about the future of AI in healthcare. This episode is a must listen for anybody passionate about technology, healthcare, innovation, and the human side of progress. I'm here with Amy Zolotow, an expert in many, many things, but Amy, what I really want to do is just hear your story about what got you interested in the intersection between humanity and technology?

Amy Zolotow: 2:02

thank you so much, Don, for having me here today. I'm really excited to spend this time with you. when we take a look at my backstory, it actually started in a fairly traumatic place. My dad died of pancreatic cancer when I was 16. And it was at that point, recognizing that he was diagnosed only four weeks before he died. I didn't understand why the technology did not work for him. Why the treatment wasn't working, why he was diagnosed so late. And it really sparked this curiosity, this interest in the broken of healthcare. And walking through the trajectory, that connection of human technology. Continued moving forward into my education where I studied the continuity of care and gaps within that continuity of care process. And then I found my way into the healthcare side where I've spent the last 10 years working for. Large academic medical centers to community physician sites. And throughout the last 10 years, all I've been doing is examining that broken, examining the pain points that exist and just continuing to get curious as to why they're there and how we can best manage it. And that's where I truly feel that we have this tremendous opportunity. with the digital space or being in the digital space, including AI technology to really make an impact for both our patients and the people who take care of them.

Don Finley: 3:42

That's so fascinating. And I'm so sorry that you had lost your father at that age as well. And that's really touching. And I'm sure that he is incredibly proud of you for how you've taken that experience and moved it into like to helping others, as well. what are really the top things that are broken in our healthcare environment today?

Amy Zolotow: 4:02

I feel like we are being collectively inundated with administrative tasks that are contributing to this overwhelming, burnout that we're facing in healthcare. I was reading a study the other day, the AMA just published that for the first time, in the last four years, we're actually, under 50 percent for our collective burnout rate. which is phenomenal. back in 2021, we saw that burnout rate rise to above 60 percent and to see that drop is phenomenal, but that's still just under 50%. We are not where we need to be. And working in this field of healthcare, I live and breathe pain points all day long, anything from providers being incredibly frustrated at their productivity demands going like this, the patient demands are going like this, and we have no substantial means to really put a significant dent in that. So anything from in basket management on the provider side, to taking care of prior authorizations, what can be incredibly time consuming and arduous process, to on the patient side, just trying to get an appointment with a doctor. So the access issue is also still very prevalent. So you see a tremendous amount of burnout. We're already facing an increasing access issue. And those are some of or maybe the two areas, that are still very relevant today.

Don Finley: 5:44

It's fascinating to see that an industry that is so important to our just existence has some of these like baseline challenges. And I want to go back to what you were saying about the burnout rate. Does that mean that 50 percent of people involved in healthcare are basically burnt out? Or what is that measuring?

Amy Zolotow: 6:05

I would actually beg to say that from my experience, that percentage, it seems like a lot higher. So while I read that statistics, I read statistics like those. I feel like in my everyday, that statistic is actually much higher. I feel like the mechanisms we have in place to really diminish or to diminish that number, we haven't been able to sustain those measures. And it's because of the collective space that we're in right now, where We need to take care of so many more people and we have so many more providers exiting the space. So that leaves the people that remain completely overwhelmed. You saw a significant number of, providers leave. And when I say providers, the nurses, the doctors, like the collective, But we saw a significant number leave, during COVID. but we've only continued to see more physicians leave. And unfortunately, we don't have the supply right now. the rate of entry for medical students is just not keeping up. It's a really challenging time.

Don Finley: 7:21

It's really a shame, and I feel free, because also my sister just left her nursing, left nursing as a career literally yesterday, has a new job in healthcare, but will no longer be a nurse. and because I think the, the challenges are there, the burnout is significant. And I think what you also described as far as like the administrative, burden, the over reliance on it, I've seen that for years in my own, as a patient. The amount of times that my doctor is literally sitting at the computer typing something in while we're talking, and then additionally the nurse is doing the same thing, and It feels like it's a cover your ass type of scenario, but at the same time, it's the care that kind of goes about and I'll share an experience that I had. I was having migraines and the migraines when I told the symptoms to the nurse, she goes, you've got to get in here today and as soon as possible. And I was like, okay. And so I go to the doctor, she goes, look, because of how you're getting the migraines and that was the qualifier. We actually, you know, aneurysm. Yeah. And so she goes, okay, so we're going to get you in the MRI and we're going to do it with MRI, MRA with fluids, without fluids of the head. And she writes the script. And then the next day she leaves the country for four weeks. and so that's important for this because my insurance company kicked back the prescription of getting the MRI and MRA because one of them. Having it with fluid wouldn't have done anything. So it was just an extra, it was that one test. But instead of rejecting just the one test, they rejected all of them. And then I had to go back and go to see another doctor who was covering for her. That doctor said, I'm not going to change her orders. You'll have to wait to see the neurologist. So I had to wait three weeks. And this is all for something where they're like, you have to take care of this right away. Don't get on a plane kind of scenario. And yet they were like, you can wait three weeks for this. So I go and see the neurologist and he goes, Oh yeah, it was just a mistake. Here you go. But all of that happens. in this space and you could see how one doctor wasn't really feeling empowered to actually make the call. Another doctor, made a simple mistake and at the same time like we couldn't get it addressed. But I feel for them because this is their everyday lives of living with the bureaucracy and living with that. Where do you think that technology would have the largest impact or can have the largest impact for our health care teams?

Amy Zolotow: 9:59

Well, the immediate thought as you're talking through the situation and That is horrible. I will say it pains me to hear that being on the operations side, the access piece, you're speaking to the lack of continuity of care. You're speaking to the lack of communication. here you are, you're a living, breathing human being, and you get this news, and then you're trying to frantically figure out what do I do with this? and it's unfortunate. That, your story along with so many other stories are just like this. it falls in alignment with a lot of what I hear about in this space. And it speaks to a lot of the different pain points that, that we're facing collectively. I feel like some of the technology that's out there. really that speaks to that continuity of care piece where you can open an app and you can connect in real time with your care team. They are HIPAA compliant apps that are out there that really allow that real time involvement where you can look at images, you can discuss, you can ask questions. It even has a feature or most of them have features where if you have a question about. A something, an issue, you could very easily look through, and do, from a searching mechanism. determine, other information, learn other information that could help in that diagnosis or give you a little bit more context as to what's happening. I feel like those apps are incredibly important, especially given the access issue that we're having right now. And it also speaks to the move that we see right now from being the traditional patient going to the physician practice. are going to an appointment to health at home. And I really feel like we're going to start seeing more of this. Providence is doing a lot of work. Mayo, a lot of the larger, more digitally focused institutions are really making great efforts to take care of people in the comfort of their own home. which, in the case like yours, if you were, being taken care of in your home, You could be hooked up to machines, you could be doing telemedicine visits, you could be really engaged in that process. And it also speaks to that, and you're also referring to this move from the provider at the epicenter to the patient at the epicenter, really driving those conversations. You want to know what's happening with you. You don't want to wait. you have to get answers quickly, and those answers are not coming to you fast enough. So it really speaks to, some of the pain points, but also, what industry and what healthcare, bigger healthcare systems are doing right now, to manage those kinds of issues.

Don Finley: 12:46

That feels like a really nice change from being that provider specific to patient specific and then, we all have to navigate our healthcare system in a way that we are our own advocate, we are our own kind of the one who consolidates all the information that we get from the various specialists in order to like make the decision about our own care. and getting it so that it is centered around the patient and that maybe the providers are also in a space of collaboration could be really helpful to that because I can tell you if you're dealing with many special disks it's a it's somewhat difficult to understand which ones to lean into in an ideal world look like for you? what is the dream when it comes to the utopian society of our healthcare initiatives?

Amy Zolotow: 13:34

I love this question. I live in this space a lot. Dealing with pain points all day. You can't help but just see opportunity everywhere. And even though it sounds cheesy to say that's the lens I have when I'm in this space, I get, audibly at, animated when I talk about it. Like I go to my day job and then I come home and I get to speak with so many different kinds of people in the space that are brilliant and creative and passionate and really see a future that involves. A lot of things. I think what I would love to see is a trust in this technology. My ideal involves a lot of what the efforts that the Coalition for Health AI is really striving for. It's a coalition, it's an assembly, really a movement filled with really The top leaders, across healthcare, across industry, across the regulatory space, across patient advocacy space. Everyone really coming together with that interdisciplinary lens. To determine what that gold standard for trustworthy and responsible health AI is all about. Really determining what that blueprint looks like. And tying back to that ideal, when you have that collective, when you have that powerful community, really having the conversations that we need to in this space toward a world where we don't have to question I would love to be in a space where I have my patients walk in the door and they say, what AI are you using? I feel like we're getting there. I really feel like we're getting there. we already have patients walking in the door and they have their phone and they say, chat GPT told me this, which creates a little bit of a conundrum, Because then you throw the providers off who might not be as astute, or trained or knowledgeable. And so it creates a very interesting dynamic. So I feel like we are getting there. But my ideal is really taking an interdisciplinary approach to this space to really drive that trust. and not just for patients, but also for the people. In, actually delivering the care.

Don Finley: 16:01

And

Amy Zolotow: 16:02

It's exciting. I feel like we can get there.

Don Finley: 16:05

Oh, I totally agree with you. like There's nothing that I would love more than for people to be getting a higher level of care through technology that gives them the opportunity to be spending more time with their friends, family, their loved ones, and allows us to build our communities, how we see fit, that's a huge thing for me as well. one of, the challenges that I see in this is Today is our LLMs are not telling you how they got to an answer, And I think that's one of the challenges that we face. The second is. We've gotten better with hallucinization over the last year. we still haven't solved that edge of making sure that the AI always responds factually, but I do think that you're right, that we do have, an audience that is wanting to see this happen and that is looking closely at like how they can utilize these tools. I was talking to, a company that we advise. Just the other day. And the CEO was like, Hey, he's like, how, when was the last time you used Google? and I was like, one, you are assuming that I don't use Google anymore. And he's yeah, no, that's basically what I am. And I was like, you're actually right. It's been a couple of days. And we are getting to a point where the tooling is better for helping us like Perplexity AI, ArcSearch are two of them that actually like they have factual understanding behind that and what they're doing. And so I think we can get to AI that does that. And I think I, I love the picture that you're painting here. Cause it's at home, it's telemedicine, it's supported by AI, but your practitioners are additionally like available for you. The experts, that human kind of care and that empathy, can still come across through it. what's holding us back from getting there?

Amy Zolotow: 17:47

I think going back to the trust piece, I think that's everything. I think everything starts with trust, and my definition of trust is Really that feeling of safety and confidence in someone or something. I think really it boils down to that. And so here we have this feeling and we also have all of these neurochemicals in our brain that excite that feeling. They can either create more of it or they can decrease it. Like we've got the oxytocin, we've got dopamine, endorphins, serotonin, all of these mechanisms In our brain that are either causing trust to increase or decrease. And when I talked to a lot of people in this space and, on the industry side, the regulatory side, like all sides, and one of the common, points that we end up talking about ultimately is how do we change human behavior? How do we drive adoption? And these are really heavy questions. And when I think about this, it all boils down to trust. And so that, it begs the question, how do we. Excite more trust. How do we increase our trust? How do we allow space for more trust? And, alongside that, this is where education comes into play. I know you had a recent episode kind of covering this topic on education and AI. And really when we're talking about this fear, this apprehension, people are scared. They feel like there's a lack of transparency there. Education can help with that. If, and so it's, where do I get the education from? And we are bombarded with all of this data. We have so many avenues we can go to resources and some are more reputable than others. And it really depends on what you're looking for. but I'm such a strong advocate in general for education. Cause I really think it can move the needle, to help with our trust issues.

Don Finley: 19:47

And I think you're right. And like we are, we're in a stage where this is a digital transformation, this is a new piece of technology that has the opportunity to shift things up, like how telehealth has as well, We've got better video communication. We've got better online communication than we've had, in our lifetime. we're living in the Jetsons. right now as far as this goes. and then additionally, like it has the same feeling of like how e commerce was. Everybody was excited for where e commerce could take us, but not many people knew how to get there. And so you saw companies that helped to fill the gap. and they provided like a really strong platform to help out because they fit into the paradigm of where people were. And I think what we'll see with AI is the same type of thing. Like we, we teach our customers that you need to have an individual plan for AI, like how they're actually integrating it into their daily life. using chat GPT or using other LLM chat bots to get a feeling and an understanding for here's what it does well, but also here's where I failed with it. Like I tried this and it didn't work or here's where I want it to go. So our, employees can get a better understanding of how it works. And I think that's one aspect of like where we're doing helping to create a trust in the tech is by getting people exposure to it in safe environments. But the funniest part about this is we also tell our clients that like, don't expect huge productivity gains from that individual aspect because that's really not what you're doing right now, right? if you want to automate something and have a repeatable process, we'll create a product that does that for you, but the individual side, you won't see it. And Microsoft just released a study about like three weeks ago now. and actually when this gets released, it'll probably be like two, three months old. But in the, in that token, the study described like that in the last six months, we're seeing an increase of over 50 percent of knowledge workers are utilizing AI on a daily basis. And so the number went from 25 percent to 75 percent of knowledge workers within that six month period. That 90 percent report that they have higher job satisfaction. because of the use of AI in their job. 85 percent say that they are spending more time on higher priority activities as well. And then I think it's 80 percent are showing that they're using it to help them accomplish their task and using it as like a partner, but they buried the productivity gains because they're basically, The only two productivity metrics that Microsoft was able to say was 11 percent fewer emails are read and 10 percent more documents are reviewed. And that's just not sexy, but it's necessary for people to understand. And also when it comes to the burnout that we're talking about, it comes to the over administrative tasks. Seeing a higher job satisfaction from people is probably the only metric that really matters when it comes to this because we, even outside of healthcare, I think it's something like 75 percent of people are not satisfied with their job. And we just live in a culture of, acceptance of those problems. We need to be changing that.

Amy Zolotow: 23:06

Yeah, by the way, I read the release of that. It's, I love the fact that I connect so much with everything you're saying. And I think, a lot of what I, when I, was exposed to that. And I started thinking through, as I was, taking a gander. It really speaks to the overwhelming data that we are faced with all the time. Oracle did a study back in April last year. And when you get a chance, you have to take a look at this. It's really interesting, even though it's a year old. so what, it's like really 10 years old now. but it really speaks to, so this was a study, 14, 000 people and we're talking C suite and below, over 17 countries and really taking a look at are overwhelming data and how it inhibits us to make decisions. I think so often we think, more data, better decisions. And that's really not the case. And this is what this study really talks through. I think it was like 74 percent of people said the number of decisions they make every day has increased by, it's increased 10 times over the last three years. That's a lot of data. So what does that mean? And what does that mean for our productivity? here we are, we're trying to grasp onto all of these tools. but we have to make sure that we're educating ourselves to maximize our use of it. And then from a behavior perspective, a human behavior perspective, to your point, the productivity is lost. that's not something that we really expected from that, You would think, productivity should go up, If we have access to technology, this is what should happen. but I really think, it comes back to understanding what that is. I'm a big proponent of storytelling when it comes to data. I think it makes it more real and more palatable for people, especially if you don't come from an IT background or a tech background. maybe you don't have a business background. I think it helps really, solidify. a concept, an idea. And then when you think about it, ideas don't exist independently on their own. They need a story to really drive it forward. It doesn't matter what the idea is. But I think that's where we see a lot of opportunity to really have people understanding what that data is and what does that do in turn for trust? that increases trust. If we can understand it in a way that makes sense. I think we're more likely to really buy into that idea, that concept, that piece of technology, even with that person, you might tell a story like you were sharing. the story earlier, where all of a sudden you're experiencing someone that you know that's leaving the industry to do something else, because of, so I'm connecting with that. So here we have, the neurochemicals are going through my mind, you foster trust that way through that storytelling. And I think that's really important to also keep in mind when we're talking about technology. what are the stories that we're talking about here? I think, it was back in April. Did you hear about that, nurses, that nursing strike in California?

Don Finley: 26:17

No, I missed that one.

Amy Zolotow: 26:19

Okay. There was a nursing strike. so the California nursing association, they were picketing. Saying against AI, they felt like their jobs were reduced to tasking. Like

Don Finley: 26:32

Yeah.

Amy Zolotow: 26:33

care is just a series of tech. It was incredible to see the signs and just the overwhelming, passion that these nurses had. And I couldn't help but think, so I'm reading through this story. It's really powerful. And I'm thinking, what was the story they got about AI? Who walked them through the technology? what kind of technology were they faced with? why is it something was put in place and the immediate reaction was, I don't trust it. This is going to impact patient care in a negative way. there were all of these really strong feelings. And sociologically, this is really interesting to see, The dynamics evolve from this. So, going back to that storytelling piece, I think it's so incredibly important that as we continue discussions on this space, we're telling the right stories that we're relaying the right information.

Don Finley: 27:26

you really hit on a strong note there, because it is, data tells one story, And actually data can tell many stories. And We are humans in this capacity and that we aren't just logical beings. We're emotional as well. And like the stories help to bring us together. They help to build that trust, or they also help to destroy it. and I think that's entirely the case you're talking about within the, the California strike of the nurses is like, they may have had a story that told them of a future. or of an experience in today that just wasn't resonating with who they are and, really the value that they can, add to the community and to their patients. wow. love to know what advice do you have for people who are, coming into this environment and, what impact can they have on their future?

Amy Zolotow: 28:17

I truly feel like every single voice in this space is worthy of attention, regardless of, how much exposure you've had to it. we need you. We need everyone collectively coming together to really understand the dynamics that are taking place, to understand the value of AI. I feel like you don't have to know the nooks and crannies of the technology, just like you don't need to know the mechanics of a car to be able to drive it, I think it's important that people really start to understand and really dive into the education of this. and I'm not talking about education like a one size fits all approach. You need education that really meets you where you're at. But really taking a step, leaning into this space and understanding the value it has. We are facing Issues in healthcare, that don't seem to be getting any better. and I pause as I say this just because I get flooded with images, over the last 10 years of nothing but challenges and issues, anywhere from the boardroom to the front desk, I hear and see it all. I speak everyone's language in my role in operations. And what I really would encourage is for everyone to really understand the problems that exist and take a deep look at the problems and understanding what the technology can do for this space. And I also think there's a really important point to make here that I don't think we spend enough time recognizing what the real problem is. I think so often, sometimes it's as easy as like a light is broken and you need to fix the light, but I think so often we don't do the homework. You don't do the investigative work to really understand what a problem is. Sometimes you're not going to solve it with technology. But it's understanding what the difference is and really understanding where you're at, as a starting point and moving forward from there.

Don Finley: 30:18

Wow. Amy, thank you so much. That was absolutely brilliant. And I just love having you on the show. So really appreciate you taking the time today to talk to us.

Amy Zolotow: 30:27

Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Don.

Don Finley: 30:30

Thank you for tuning into The Human Code, sponsored by FINdustries, where we harness AI to elevate your business. By improving operational efficiency and accelerating growth, we turn opportunities into reality. Let FINdustries be your guide to AI mastery, making success inevitable. Explore how at FINdustries. co.