The Human Code

Digital Health and the Role of AI: A Conversation with Dr. Krysti Vo

• Don Finley • Season 1 • Episode 57

Share episode

Send us a text

For the YouHabits Course, Dr. Vo is offering significant discounts for early sign-ups. They would love for the listeners to join the waitlist using this link: https://vo.care/youhabits-waiting-list/ so you can receive the promo code once the course goes live.

Dr.Vo's social profiles:


The Intersection of Technology and Mental Health with Dr. Krysti Vo

In this premiere episode of The Human Code, host Don Finley interviews Dr. Krysti Vo, a psychiatrist and digital health innovator. The discussion explores Dr. Vo’s journey from practicing psychiatry to leveraging telehealth and AI to advance mental health care. Dr. Vo shares insights on the balance between human connection and technological facilitation. The conversation covers the benefits of AI in reducing clinicians' administrative burdens and its potential in relationship coaching and mental health. Dr. Vo also introduces her YouHabit course, which helps individuals build fulfilling habits through personalized systems. The episode concludes with a thoughtful dialogue on the evolving role of AI in society and the importance of maintaining intentionality in its application.


00:00 Introduction to The Human Code 
00:49 Meet Dr. Krysti Vo: Innovator in Mental Health 
02:02 The Role of Technology in Psychiatry 
04:48 AI in Mental Health: Benefits and Risks 
09:46 The Future of AI in Human Relationships 
17:58 YouHabit: Redefining Purpose and Building Habits 
23:36 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Sponsored by FINdustries
Hosted by Don Finley

Don Finley:

Welcome to The Human Code, the podcast where technology meets humanity, and the future is shaped by the leaders and innovators of today. I'm your host, Don Finley, inviting you on a journey through the fascinating world of tech, leadership, and personal growth. Here, we delve into the stories of visionary minds, Who are not only driving technological advancement, but also embodying the personal journeys and insights that inspire us all. Each episode, we explore the intersections where human ingenuity meets the cutting edge of technology, unpacking the experiences, challenges, and triumphs that define our era. So, whether you are a tech enthusiast, an inspiring entrepreneur, or simply curious about the human narratives behind the digital revolution, you're in the right place. Welcome to The Human Code. In today's episode, we're joined by Dr. Kristy MD, a psychiatrist, a digital health innovator, and an entrepreneur are reshaping the way we approach mental health and habit building. With over a decade of experience, Dr. Vo combines her expertise in behavioral health with a passion for leveraging technology to create impactful solutions. As the founder of you habits, an innovative system designed to help people build meaningful, personalized habits and a consultant for cutting edge digital health startups. Dr. Vo is at the forefront of using AI to enhance mental health care. In this conversation, we'll explore the balance between human connection and technological facilitation. The potential for AI to alleviate administrative burdens. And her vision for the future of tech enabled mental health. Join us as we delve into Dr. Vo's journey and our insights on how technology can empower individuals while preserving the humanity at the heart of care. I'm here with Krysti Vo. And Krysti and I have known each other for a number of years and have, run into each other. But at the same time, she brings such a wide, diverse background, to the conversation. I'm really looking forward to diving in today. So Krysti, what got you interested in the intersection between humanity and technology?

Krysti Vo Md:

yes. Thank you for that question. So I am a physician psychiatrist by training. So I've always been interested in humanity. I went into psychiatry because I just love listening. For one, listening to human stories, understand their history. Uh, and as a psychiatrist, I'm always humble every day to hear people's darkest thoughts and just, be there for them in their most vulnerable period. And my career progressed to the point where I was at CHOP. I was the, Medical director of telehealth. and I actually purposely chosen that position so that I can build telehealth services, for psychiatry. Because access to psychiatry is an issue. Not many places have psychiatrists. and so I, Built several telehealth services. And from there, I understand that, telehealth is one of the way to reach patients and give them care. at the same time, a lot of technology, especially in consumer product, is very robust. Healthcare is so behind. And I got a grant from Tulio. which is a, Fortune 500 company. I believe they're public. they do a lot of backend, text communication, and a lot of backend tools for people, for developers to

Don Finley:

they manage phone systems, text, messaging, really a wide communications backend platform.

Krysti Vo Md:

Yes. Yes. And with that, grant, I built a software platform, about, health screening in primary care and linking people to care. and that was actually a big stepping stone for me to really engage more with technology. And I think technology can really help facilitate care. It can help people get access to care. and for me, technology shouldn't really replace the human interaction. It shouldn't really replace, what is so valuable in, actually. The rapport between humans that actually is the key to people getting better, but it can facilitate a lot of things and it can make things easier particularly for clinicians, as a psychiatrist, as a therapist, we're burdened with administrative tasks and note taking, etc. And technology can help alleviate some of those burdens. And so it can make what we do, easier and less stressful and less overwhelming.

Don Finley:

That's definitely an area that we're finding a lot of focus for ourselves too, is like, how do you increase the amount of human connection and relationship building time and take away the administrative function from a role? So that you can focus on that space. And I think that's more profound in psychiatry and the mental health services space, because you want that human connection. You want that empathy, that compassion we know that it's solidly based when it's human to human. Um, do you see AI getting into that area or Uh, Uh, like emotionally Uh, cognizant isn't the right word, but they are aware of the emotions of the person that's speaking. They're able to adapt themselves to that. Is there a place for AI in the actual clinician setting or is that a bridge too far?

Krysti Vo Md:

so I'm actually a digital health consultant as well, and I consult to some AI companies. one of them is actually an AI note scribe, that helps clinicians. They listen in on the session with the patient, and they actually write the note as the patient. As a clinician would, and there's many features in that software that's actually pretty great. so I actually noticed that it actually is detecting the tone of the patient. So Whenever it, proposed the note that I should use, it actually said, Oh, patient appear reluctant or patient sounds anxious or patient. like it actually proposed how the patient is feeling in the note. And so I'm actually very impressed that, for the most part it's accurate. Uh, and I think when it comes to how it can be used, I think. In that such way in like adjusting in note documentation, that would be a good way to eliminate administrative burden for the clinician in terms of, other usage of that technology of detecting, motions. I think I can also be done maybe in relationship coaching. I know companies that are working on using AI to do relation coaching. And if let's say AI can detect a. text message, transcript between two people, and then they can be like, Oh, this is what we think happened. And this is how that person may have felt. And maybe the way to resolve that issue or engage that person is by empathetic communication. And it can be used to train people who may not, have the bandwidth to really think about how they're engaging with people, and suggesting How people can engage with each other so that people can build a better rapport with each other, particularly when people are in a relationship or dating or a partnership.

Don Finley:

I think that's an incredibly powerful tool to have like on the side that kind of, can help you in those points of communication, Because even let's say you're going into relationship counseling to improve your relationship. There's always a delay between when an event occurs and then when you get a chance to sit in that environment, but if you have the tools and if AI can basically be a fly on the wall of the communication of the relationship, it can help to coach you in those moments. Uh, where you, need it before maybe it escalates into something else, but also provides you that coaching in real time. do we run the risk of any sort of like over reliance on having these tools so closely integrated with our, emotional relationships?

Krysti Vo Md:

Yes, I think that is a huge risk because, AI's new, it's evolving and depending on how the AI is trained at the beginning, it can sway the perspective of a. person. And when we really disclose our vulnerable state and our vulnerable incidents in our lives to it, we inherently, as a human, we inherently attach to this thing that is, seems to be relieving some of our stresses. Uh, and if this AI intention behind that is like, Oh, I want you to use me forever. Then it will automatically train itself to want you to have more issue with it. Your partner so that you would engage with it to more, you know what I mean? Like if the intention of the AI is for it to be, to gain money, It's capitalism. It's capitalism, right? AI can be capitalist,

Don Finley:

AI will be a very effective capitalist. Like, there is no doubt about that. And I know we've trained some models that actually, are, they're goal seeking, And that's basically what AI does is it aligns itself to a goal. and that's a really great point around the relationship coaching that if we continue to dive into this, if the AI is. It's trained for, attention, For your attention and for your use, it's going to find continual ways for you to go. I had this conversation with some of my friends and it's a, when you start going on your healing journey, there's always going to be something to heal from. You can always find that another piece of trauma if you want to. Yeah. And when you go down on that healing path, when does it become more of like your thriving path kind of thing? And if the AI is unable to recognize that like now you're shifting into a space of being healthy, it may continue to find ways for you to be unhealthy or overanalyze a situation to trying to find the unhealthy behavior so that it can coach you.

Krysti Vo Md:

yes, exactly. And I can see that going. I can see that happening.

Don Finley:

Yeah.

Krysti Vo Md:

you think about it, the purpose of the AI, just as like humans, when we find a purpose in something, let's say a purpose of being a mother or a purpose of being a career oriented woman, or a purpose of, Advocacy and human rights. We tend to dig deeper into that and it becomes almost our identity. And so if AI, we resolve its identity and its capitalistic values and then it will eventually do that to the extreme. that's my theory.

Don Finley:

there's a, theory of basically if you tell like an AI or you tell a system to basically create as many paperclips as it possibly can, maximize paperclip production. one of the paths that a machine could take is basically consuming all resources in the world to turn the earth itself into paperclips, So you destroy the environment, you destroy the oceans, you destroy the crust, you basically try to consume as much of the environment as possible because you're maximizing paperclip production. And you just never recognize that hey, maybe 50 trillion paperclips is enough. Like we don't need any more than this. And I think we need those safeguards in our applications to help recognize when we've gone to maybe a bridge too far, um, type of perspective, or at least ensuring that we're maintaining alignment with our consumer, of this instead of being solely aligned on what's in the benefit of the entity that provided the AI.

Krysti Vo Md:

yes. And then, in the health tech space, or digital health space, there are a lot of clinics and companies that, they used to be, so gung ho about, Hey, we're a technology based company, or we're like this technology focus, but then now they're starting to say, oh, we're tech enable human center company. the trend in the digital health space is. using technology to enable real human care. and I think eventually all the interest in AI will lean that way as well. Like we can be AI facilitated or AI enable, but it will be human center X, you know, whatever it is that company is doing,

Don Finley:

And I think that's an approach that I think has both multiple benefits, Like you were speaking about purpose earlier, And a lot of people find purpose in their work. And if we get to a place where AI is actually capable of doing most people's jobs, then where does that leave the human in the equation? are we necessary for the work to be done? And if we're not necessary, but we still want to be doing it. There is value in that. And like, I think that having AI that is aligned with people, but also, you know, helping to ensure that like the humans can maintain the connection that they have with other humans in the workplace or in their daily lives, is incredibly important. And I'm glad to see that the healthcare space is making that transition as well to being more tech enabled than really being tech driven. cause that human relationship is incredibly important to just our own mental wellbeing. have you heard of the dead internet theory?

Krysti Vo Md:

I have not

Don Finley:

Okay, I first came across this theory back in I want to say that it was somewhere between 2016 and 2018. The idea is that at some point, the internet is going to be filled with more traffic from bots than it is from humans. And so these bots come in many different forms. They might be on social sites, they might be on other locations, and they might just be communicating with each other. The challenge becomes if they're on let's say social media sites. You don't know whether you're talking to a person or you're talking to a bot. And when you have, let's say 80 percent people as the traffic, then it's not so much a problem. But when you start getting above 50%, Uh, How much of that is actually on one platform or the other, I think is up for debate. But you can see the quality of the conversation dropping. And I think what you're noticing in the healthcare space is If we use bots for bots or use AI for all places where we can use it, we might miss out on that human connection.

Krysti Vo Md:

Yeah, yes, I definitely agree with you. And I think when it comes to bot facility conversation it is a mental health risks, because there are a lot of people who cannot detect whether something is a bot or a real person, especially people who have been isolated, people who don't have that much social interaction at baseline, uh, they can get into A rabbit hole or a connection with, with a bot. And when, if you use AI to use bots, that it just gets smarter and smarter, then that person can really become like her, like it can really fall in love with a bot. And I think the risk is there where it could happen.

Don Finley:

we're, there's a company out there called character AI. And there's a really interesting thing that happens is you can build your own avatar, like the movie her, and you can build relationships, have conversations with these avatars. And the. only time that community really gets together to talk about what they're doing is when the site is down. And then you see them on message boards, that like coming the news of what the site is down. Okay, now we got to go talk to people. and it is really amazing that we have AIs out there that people are having that kind of connection with. And then also somewhat Personally, I find it just, disheartening

Krysti Vo Md:

Um,

Don Finley:

see that people are, essentially isolating from human connection to have a connection with, an AI character.

Krysti Vo Md:

Yes, I was actually talking to this with a colleague the other day, and our definition of connection is going to be redefined because, the analogy is that our parents are like, oh, why are you on the laptop so much? Why are y'all on TV so much? You need to get out there and play. Nowadays kids don't really go outside and play anymore, but they're chatting to each other while they're playing games. To the kid, this is connection. Chatting with someone while I'm playing a game is connection. But to the older parent, they're like, that's not connection. You need to see them each other physically. So the definition that the parent has regarding connection is physical, in person connection, versus connection that the Xiao definition is connection through. Bantering online with chatting with each other and playing games together. So I think the definition of society of what connection entails and how that entails is going to change. And whether it's with a bot or whether it's with a person, you're right, we don't want to actually label that as sad or not sad. Right now, I'm trying to be as neutral as possible. So I'm giving this perspective that perhaps it's not a sad thing. if without that bot, people who, let's say, people with autism, they struggle with human interaction. Without that bot, that person with autism, we'll feel even more lonely. We'll feel even more

Don Finley:

Ah, okay.

Krysti Vo Md:

That's their sense of relationship. If it was without that bot, then that person with autism will not want a purpose to live, not have a purpose. I'm going to extreme here, but I can see that. happening. I can see that

Don Finley:

Yeah, I can totally appreciate that. That situation, like the neutrality that you brought to the conversation on that is, is really helpful. Cause there is definitely a place for these tools. There's definitely a place of like healthy usage, as well. And that communication and that, character interaction that you can have with the AI could be very beneficial for you to get into, human to human contact as well. Like you're saying, like there could be people who where this could be a baseline start or it could be a, a supplement. to what they're doing as well. That's really positive. Thank you. I know you've got a another project that you're working on that I want to make sure that we talk about as well, because there was some interest on the YouHabit side. what was the impetus of bringing this to life? And What's your vision for YouHabit?

Krysti Vo Md:

yes. So YouHabit is a course that helps people really redefine their purpose. what do they find? fulfilling. What do they want to do? What do they want to be? What is their core values? What, is their priority in life? And they actually have them take a look at that and then adopt habits that aligns with their priorities and their values. Adopt habits that will be fulfilling for them. And, uh, of course, it's their series of steps. Uh, that help people, to adopt those habits, such as using the habit loop, uh, such as using, some other tools that I actually take from my business, from the business realm, such as, the impact effort matrix, so using those tools. The purpose is to really help people adopt habits that in small, that are manageable, realistic, and relevant to their life, where that at the end of the course, they will have all the tools they need, so that They will use those tools over and over again in their life, whenever they think of re evaluating where they currently stand, what they currently do, and how to even improve their life to be more fulfilling. and right now the course hasn't launched yet. I'm currently doing it in person for a selected number of groups. but hopefully by January, we will launch on my website. people can. Sign up online and it will be an online course. I'm also open to collaborating with any software developer or any company that would want to Use this program this YouHabit course and develop it further perhaps even Developing some ai to help facilitate some of the coaching aspects that this course has

Don Finley:

And that's, I think, a great kind of delineation of where AI can be really helpful in the near term is in that coaching realm. because it, you can bring a number of skills to it. Like you're talking about your impact effort matrix, as well as the, habit loops and having, an AI that I've worked on one myself. In that area and having it to be able to analyze both my actions and what's like the perspective that I have on this and then adopting to those tools has been really helpful to bring about a different perspective in some of that work.

Krysti Vo Md:

and I knew in my course, one of the key premise is that you have to develop a system that really works for you. It's not really about. Your willpower, your willpower can only go so much, but honestly, it's really about the system that you built around your habits that makes it sustainable and workable. and the AI can really remind people to revisit their habit loop or revisit some of these tools and then modify it. The AI can really help the people modify it further by asking questions. and why wasn't it working? what happened that day that you didn't do, you didn't go work out? and those are things I do in person. that's what I do when I coach my clients. but I'm not in the moment. I'm not in real time. I only see them once a week. So we can use AI in such a way where we're collecting data from the patient in real time, how are you feeling at that moment, because patients reported. information back to me a week later is also not accurate. so I think that's how I would use AI, for this potential software, that adopt my YouHabit, of course.

Don Finley:

Oh, I love that and absolutely would love to continue the conversation around like what you're doing with YouHabit and it's It sounds like such a fascinating way to bring people together as well as to offer some opportunity for people to find their own path and you can go on youtube You can find anybody Offering, this is the path that I took this is your path to success This is like how you find your purpose but at the same time like everybody's Finding that purpose can be different and has to be that managing and understanding of how you learn about yourself and how you learn about where you're going at the same time because in that journey is the discovery yeah, and I love that you're offering things that have a bit of balance of trying to find for you what works and what is effective. and getting those feedback loops going

Krysti Vo Md:

yes. And that's harder. That's harder for people to do because a lot of times, even people that go to my class, they're like, just tell me what to do. What is the ideal morning routine? What is the ideal day? And I'm like, sure. There's plenty of people. No, really. There's plenty of people on YouTube. Coaches are telling you that this is the ideal morning. But if it's not working for you and you're not doing it, then you're It's not helpful. We need to really think about what are you currently doing now, and how can we get there to a little bit incremental change at a time to live the life that you want to live, and that is still fulfilling. Just because the society tells me I should work out three times a day for at least 30 minutes at a gym doesn't mean that's the right thing for you. What right for you could be just, Buying a treadmill at home and buying a stand up desk and then just walking on it for 30 minutes, So we gotta, we gotta think, brainstorm wider. What fits you, your lifestyle, what you want to do, and what you define as fulfilling. so for people who want to know and Stay in touch with what I'm doing with YouHabits. They can check out my website. My website is Vo. care. Yeah, it's instead of dot com. It's Vo. care. Very simple. And then join my mailing list. Join

Don Finley:

absolutely. So we'll definitely send people to Vodacare, for you habits, joining the mailing list. we'll also include a link to that in the show notes as well. Krysti, is there anything I haven't touched on or anything that you want to throw in that we might've missed? evaded conversation so far.

Krysti Vo Md:

think it's, AI is not something to be afraid of. I think when people talk about things that could be the negative side of things, I think of it as the analogy to that is like when the TV came out or the, when the phone came out and when the internet came out, everyone was like, Oh my gosh, it's going to change life and people are just going to be isolated, in a cave and not see sunshine. But yes, there are a niche of group of people that it could really have a negative impact on. But overall of society, I think it will be, just infused into our daily life where we don't even think about it much.

Don Finley:

and it is funny that you're giving that path. We had a, futurist from the University of Washington on the show, actually twice now, Daniel W. Rasmus, and he was talking about the scenarios of what I could do. And there's the dystopian view, Like Terminator. and then there's the utopian side that He was calling the healing path, basically, can we make the economy more equitable for everybody? Can we, reverse climate change, in some form or fashion and would AI be that driver that does it? And then there was two others. There was. One of them that was transactional and like you would interact with AI on transactional basis. Like I'm trying to do this and there's the AI. I'm trying to do that. There's the AI, And the other one was meh. And it was the aspect of meh was you're not even going to notice it because it's just going to be like electricity. It's just going to be there, Like you just take it for granted that you go into a building and the lights turn on and that is both A really magical place to be, but additionally, like a cool place for us to be in right now, to see this transformation of a new form of electricity being added to our life.

Krysti Vo Md:

Yes, I think that's my view, at least. I think that's where it will go. But if we see that deviating from that, we do need to shift it back toward that, right? we see it going more on the dystopic side, as human, we should really push AI and the technology to go more of the utopia side,

Don Finley:

That's a great segment. And I like really appreciate that we just got it. We've got to stay present in this moment of like where we're at with this technology and how we're choosing to apply it and what we're choosing to like.

Krysti Vo Md:

and do it. with intentionality. Do it within

Don Finley:

Exactly. Yeah. This is definitely the first shovel we've made that actually chooses where it digs. So yeah, amazing. Krysti, thank you so much for being on the show today. really appreciate the time and thank you again.

Krysti Vo Md:

Yes. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you for having me.

Don Finley:

Thank you for tuning into The Human Code, sponsored by FINdustries, where we harness AI to elevate your business. By improving operational efficiency and accelerating growth, we turn opportunities into reality. Let FINdustries be your guide to AI mastery, making success inevitable. Explore how at FINdustries. co.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Don Finley

Host
Head Shot

Shay Ragab

Producer